Wes Kao (00:00): I think that most people assume that their boss has to manage them and they feel a little bit resentful that, why should I manage my boss? They're getting paid more. They are my manager. They have more responsibility. Wes Kao (00:14): And you can continue to think that way and your career might be fine, but if you embrace that if you manage your boss, they're going to appreciate you much more, you're going to get more opportunities, you're going to have more trust with them, there's all these great things that happen when you decide to manage up. Lenny (00:36): Wes Kao is the co-founder of Maven, a cohort-based learning platform that I used to create my own course on product management. But even more interestingly, she's helped folks like Seth Godin start his altMBA course, which is legendary. She's also helped people like David Perell, Tiago Forte, Scott Galloway, and even Morning Brew build their cohort-based courses. She's one of the smartest people I have ever met on the art of teaching and I've learned a ton from her. Lenny (01:01): And in our chat, we cover a concept I love called the super specific who. We talk about the state change method and how using this idea, you'll run better meetings. We look at a bunch of advice for why you should spend time managing up and how to manage up effectively. We talk about a bunch of ways to write better, tips for saying no, and a bunch of other really interesting topics. I always have such a good time chatting with Wes, and I hope that you learn as much from this chat as I did. And with that, I bring you Wes Kao. Lenny (01:36): This episode is brought to you by Modern Treasury. Modern Treasury is a next generation operating system for moving and tracking money. They're modernizing the developer tools and financial processes for companies managing complex payment flows. Think digital wallets, fiat crypto on-ramps, ride sharing marketplaces, instant lending and more. They work with high growth companies...