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Eli Schwartz

Episode #89

Growth Advisor & Author

Product-Led SEO

🎯Product Strategy📈Growth & Metrics⚡Execution

📝Full Transcript

23,307 words
Lenny Rachitsky (00:00:00): You've noticed a significant shift in how SEO works with the rise of AI answers being integrated into search results. Eli Schwartz (00:00:06): Transparently, I thought this was going to be an apocalypse. Up until AI Overviews, whoever won on that long form piece of content would get that first click. But now that doesn't exist anymore. Lenny Rachitsky (00:00:15): What should people do to be successful in this new paradigm? Eli Schwartz (00:00:19): Think of SEO as a product. The product managers are the people that should be thinking about this SEO question because it's a product question. Product people need to think about how do we position this to the user that is not going to find out about this from a social channel, that's not going to be attracted by an ad? This is a user that's doing their own self-discovery journey. If you can't answer the question about what is it that someone's going to do a search on, then don't do SEO. Lenny Rachitsky (00:00:44): To a lot of people, SEO is kind of this dark art. Eli Schwartz (00:00:45): It is not a dark art. It is simple. I think step one is the step that almost everyone misses on SEO, which is. Lenny Rachitsky (00:00:57): Today my guest is Eli Schwartz. Eli is a growth advisor specializing in SEO and has helped companies like Quora, Coinbase, Tinder, LinkedIn, WordPress, and Zapier develop and execute their SEO strategies. He's also the author of Product-Led SEO and has a very refreshing take on how to think about SEO and win at SEO. Recently, he's been spending a lot of his time analyzing how SEO changes with the rise of LLM chatbots, Google giving you the answers straight in the search results, and also how to utilize AI in your SEO strategy. (00:01:31): In this episode, we dive deep into everything that you need to know to be successful in this new AI paradigm. As Eli shares in the conversation, Google is just now rolling out changes to how search works and is greatly increasing how...

💡 Key Takeaways

  • 1Treat SEO as a product, not a marketing tactic: Requires PMs, engineers, and designers, not just content writers.
  • 2Most B2B SaaS companies should not do SEO: If your product requires a sales demo or committee decision, top-of-funnel search traffic rarely converts to revenue.
  • 3Stop tracking traffic as a KPI: Traffic is often a vanity metric; focus exclusively on conversions (MQLs, signups, revenue).
  • 4AI Overviews eat the top of the funnel: Users now get answers to 'discovery' questions directly in search results; the opportunity now lies in mid-funnel 'solution' searches.
  • 5Link building is actually brand building: Buying links is dead; you must create a product or brand story so compelling that reputable sites mention you organically.
  • 6Programmatic SEO requires unique user intent: Do not auto-generate thousands of pages (e.g., by zip code) unless a user actually has a specific need for that slice of data.

📚Methodologies (3)

🎯 Product Strategy

A strategic approach that treats SEO pages as product features rather than marketing blog posts. It aligns the creation of search assets directly with user pain points and the product's value proposition.

Core Principles

  • 1.Step 1: Be the User: Ignore keyword tools initially. Hypothesize what specific problem a user has that they would type into a search bar.
  • 2.Step 2: Define the Asset: Determine if the solution requires a tool, a template, a programmatic page, or editorial content.
  • 3.Step 3: Build for the Mid-Funnel: Create assets that bridge the gap between 'I have a problem' (which AI answers) and 'I need this specific solution' (your product).
  • +1 more...

"Think of SEO as a product. The product managers are the people that should be thinking about this SEO question because it's a product question."

#product-led#strategy#product
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📈 Growth & Metrics

A decision-making framework to determine if SEO is a viable growth channel based on user behavior and business model, rather than assuming 'everyone needs SEO'.

Core Principles

  • 1.Step 1: Analyze the User Journey: Does the user buy/convert online immediately after searching? If it requires a sales call, SEO is likely low ROI.
  • 2.Step 2: Check for Problem Awareness: Are users actually searching for the problem you solve? You cannot SEO for a problem users don't know they have.
  • 3.Step 3: Calculate True Cost: Sum the cost of agencies, internal PM time, engineering support, and CMS maintenance.
  • +1 more...

"If you can't answer the question about what is it that someone's going to do a search on, then don't do SEO."

#viability#audit#growth
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⚡ Execution

A method for executing programmatic SEO that prioritizes user utility over sheer volume. It involves aggregating unique data points into a single view that saves the user research time.

Core Principles

  • 1.Step 1: Identify Aggregatable Data: Find structured data (proprietary or public) that is valuable when combined (e.g., home values + school districts).
  • 2.Step 2: Validate User Use Case: Verify that a human actually wants to see this specific slice of data (e.g., 'Hotels in Miami' vs 'Plumbers in Zip Code 90210').
  • 3.Step 3: Design the 'View': Create a template that acts as a dashboard or tool for that specific query, not just a wall of text.
  • +1 more...

"Programmatic is the right solution when there's scale and when there's a user use case. If there is not, you create scale for nothing."

#programmatic#value#engine
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