Archie Abrams (00:00:00): When you have teams naturally break up the world into different funnel stages or different points in the journey, it gets very seductive to look at my part of the funnel and what's my conversion rate through that part of the funnel, right? And then the team starts to optimize for that conversion rate as their north star. But in practice, it's actually almost always easier to just make it harder to do the thing right before your step in the funnel to increase your conversion rate. Instead of I'm trying to convert a bunch of people, I just want more people to get activated. (00:00:32): And then once you start thinking that way, you realize actually the best way to get more people to get to a step is just get more people in the door in the first place. That will always hurt your conversion rate, but it may actually give you more people on the outside. Lenny Rachitsky (00:00:48): Today my guest is Archie Abrams. Archie is VP of product and head of growth at Shopify, where he leads an org of over 600 people across product, design, engineering, data ops, and growth marketing. Shopify is both an incredibly unique and also an incredibly successful business, and they do things very differently. And as a result, there's a lot that we can learn from how they approach building product and driving growth. (00:01:12): Some examples include their priorities in product roadmap are driven by a 100-year vision that comes from Tobi, the CEO. And the core product teams don't have metrics or KPIs. They're essentially banned. And instead, decisions are made based on taste, and intuition, and building towards this long-term vision. Also, the growth team optimizes for churn, which is unlike any other company I've ever come across. And once you hear why, this will make a lot of sense. (00:01:38): Also, they keep long-term holdouts for every experiment they run, and they automatically look at the impact these experiments have had on the business a year later, tw...